Wednesday, April 19, 2006

Jim Marcinkowski turns in his campaign statement - Here's the lowlights

By law, Jim Marcinkowski is required to turn in his financial statement to the FEC. These are public record, so I decided to take a look at them. Unlike Michigan law, only significant donoations of $200 are required to be reported. Here is a brief summary.

At least $79567 came from outside of the 8th district. Much of that is from left-wing havens like Royal Joke, I mean Oak where Marcinkowski is an attorney. The "working class" havens of Birmingham, Rochester Hills, Huntington Woods, anti-gun Farmington Hills, and the Bloomfields are well represented.

At least $22224.57 came from in the 8th district. Less than 1/4 of the money is 8th district money.

$25,850 came from union leadership.

$500 came from Hollywood Producer Robert Greenwald. He's an extreme leftist on the Michael Moore level - a Communist.

$4200 came from the Gun Lake Indian Tribe and their casino interests.

$6000 came from one Lobbyist firm - The Capitol Advocacy Services Group.

$500 came from extreme leftist and gun grabber John Conyers.

$24525 came from trial lawyers outside of the 8th district.

Do you really think that Jim Marcinkowski would represent the 8th district of Michigan, or would he represent rich leftist trial lawyers, Hollywood, and union leadership?

No thanks Jim, we don't need another Oakland County Democrat. They are the worst kind in the entire state.

52 comments:

RKG said...

If I recall correctly Mike Rogers trumpeted the fact that he raised $700,000 before his first re-election cycle. How much of that came from within his district? I think Mike Rogers had one goal when he took office and that was to garner a warchest that would scare off any challenger. And you know what, I think he met his goal - of course, I have my own view about how much of his credibility, objectivity and vote he sold for the money he took but, hey, he's a lock. I give anyone who takes on an uphill battle credit for guts and credit for bringing something to the political process. At least Marcinkowski learned one thing from Rogers - get your money whereever you can.

Anonymous said...

Again, bunches of whining, no argument. Why don't the democrats just come up with some ideas? That might help them out. Nada for at least 6 years and then whatever you call the Clinton ideas. Smoking cigars was interesting. Or battering women. Just trying to keep the peace here for ya Dan.

Anonymous said...

Two things Marcinkowski does well, raise money and swear like a truck driver.

Anonymous said...

What we need is to drive Mike Roger's right out of Congress with his culture of coruption. He is nothing but a Bush lackey. He has no ethics, nor does he give one hoot about Livingston County. I am ready to give Rogers the old heave ho!
I haven't heard Jim swear, but he does raise money like a real pro!

Anonymous said...

Michigan Dissembler you have no shame!

Mike Rogers travels all over the country picking up checks from PACs and wealthy right-wingers like Quentin Nesbitt from Ohio.

And remember the Texas Oncologysts! The Livingston Argus called one of these so-called Texas contributors - who said he never went to a Rogers event and didn't contribute the money! Is this not money laundering?

Roger's lobbyist fundraiser Mike Valente runs 15 leadership PACs.

What do you call a lobbyist that collects money for 15 Republican Leadership PACs? A laundromat.

And don't forget Killeen Communications, a big fundraiser for Rogers well over $300K, they represent many companies that pushed for the Food Labeling and Safety bill that weakens food safety in all fifty states.

Michigan Dissembler makes the Drudge Report look credible! What would your mother say see such things in print from her son?

Anonymous said...

Politicalmoneyline does the breakdown of where the candidates get their money - check out both Marcinkowski and Rogers.

I'm not sure what your analysis proves, other than Democrats support Marcinkowski and Republicans support Rogers.

I'm not sure how much we want to get into this debate considering Rogers' receives 66% of his funding from PACs and Marcinkowski is on pace to raise as much money, or possibly more money, from individual people. Even in terms of individuals, Rogers' #5 contributor seems to be an oil company president.

bgkennedy2000 said...

Also, in terms of Oakland County, Rogers' represents about 1/4th of the county, so let's not trash oakland county.

Plus - $8K from outside the district? Rogers took $24 from not outside the district, but outside the state.

Anonymous said...

Hey, BG. Don't you WORK for Marcinkowski? Saw your name as a contact on a press release and I see that Spyboy is paying you. How 'bout full disclosure?

Republican Michigander said...

Ah, Mr. Kennedy. Press Secretary for the opposition. Welcome aboard.

You're right. I shouldn't trash all of Oakland County. Northern Oakland and Western Oakland is nice, as is Waterford.

Then there's Royal Oak, Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods, and the Ann Arbor wannabes that dominate the area there. Not my cup of tea.

patrick flynn said...

I'll be submitting my signatures very soon for ballot qualification and disclosing soon after that.

Just wait until you see the sources of my funding.

It will read like a boring bedtime story.

Our founding fathers saw a structure of government where the commonest of the populace could rise up and take their place in representative leadership.

You can call me a fool if you want. But, something deep in my heart makes me believe that the vision of our leaders of 230 years ago is still valid.

Republican Michigander said...

Mr. Kennedy - I forgot to ask - maybe you can tell us what causes the Capitol Advocacy Services Group lobbies for. They sure seem to like Jim quite a bit.

Your boss seems to be quite popular with trial lawyers - tort lawyers in particular. Is that what CASG lobbies for?

Kevins said...

I decided I wasn’t going to post on this propaganda site anymore because it was a waste of my valuable time to try and change the closed minds of blind followers on this site, when I can be out instead changing the minds of undecided and reasonable voters, but this propaganda is so outrages I made an exception.

Where to start? Gee, Dan, everything on this site is propaganda and misinformation, but this is one of the best.

You ignored the fact that Jim Marcinowski has raised enough money and has enough support to be the first serious candidate to challenge MR since Dianne Byrum, despite the gerrymandering to make MR safe. I guess that’s why we’re seeing the attacks from you, and we can expect to see many, many more.

I scrolled through the 77 pages of Marcinowski’s report and I saw page after page of contributions from individuals, and from MR I saw page after page from PACs.
To gig Marcinowski for having the support of labor unions is so outrageous. The republicans are no friend to the workingman and never have. I think you mean Rep. John Conyers, one of the longest and most respected Congressmen on the Hill. Robert Greenwald is a communist? Please. He produced two excellent films, “Outfoxed” and “Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices.” I have them if you want to borrow them. Gee, Marcinowski is getting contributions from “trial lawyers.” First of all, all lawyers are trial lawyers, and second, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but Marcinowski is a lawyer. Why is it unusual for you to get contributions from your colleagues? To me, it shows that they have some respect for you. Third, with the way the republicans have bent over backwards to protect corporations and screw regular people the courts are the only recourse people have to get any measure of justice from these giants, and you want to close that off.

And what’s wrong with receiving contributions from the Gun Lake Indian Tribe? They have given money to both parties, but after the way the republicans ripped them off why would they trust a republican again?

Why don't the democrats just come up with some ideas? The republicans have? Why is an indiscretion with a woman worse than illegal wiretaps and spying, cherry picking Intel too get a war you wanted with no plan for fighting it or finishing it, torture, civilian contractors ripping taxpayers for millions and scandal after scandal? Better yet, why is this in a discussion about campaign contributions?

Well, Marcinowski may raise money well, but by republican standards that’s the only, the only, requirement for leadership. The person who raised the most money got to replace "Hot tub" Tom Delay. I don’t know if he “swears like a truck driver.” Maybe a sailor, because that’s what he was. We did the same job in the Navy, but I don’t swear much, except when I see how bush is running this great country into the ground, but I have never heard Marcinowski swear.

Well BGKennedy may work for Marcinowski, I really don’t know, but I plan to. I will soon be volunteering for him. It would be nice to see the 8th District actually have someone represent them, instead of representing GW.

I remember MR pledging time after time in 2000 that Livingston County did so well for him he would open a district office in the county. Hell, even before the election he said it. That was six years ago, and where’s the office? When Sen. Debbie Stabenow represented this district she had an office on Grand River and Chilson Road in Genoa Township. Why not mike. Maybe he could take some of that $1 million and open an office here like he promised. Once a month his staff has a few office hours in the Brighton City Hall. That’s how well he represents the distinct.

Anonymous said...

Kevins -

In order to hear Marcinkowski swear you have to be up by his mouth, not down by his feet.

I wonder when the democrats will PROVE to the union that they are on the side of the working man?? The unions are in the worst shape ever with declining memberships and jobs leaving the state in droves. Average price of a home is way up. What are democrats doing for them exactly?? Granholm even blamed the union workers for the plant closings. She would sacrifice them to save her own butt.

Come on Kevins, what clinton did was illegal, that's why he lost his law license, if what Bush was doing was illegal, he would be prosecuted for it. You cut and run guys don't understand what it takes to make this Nation safe. Wiretaps are with people talking to Al Kieda (sp?). They are the bad guys, Kevin. I think you should ask Marcinkowski if he wants your help first. I think you are helping us more. Keep talking, we'll keep letting you.

Where is Stabenow's office in Livingston County? She still represents us in the Senate. Well, I should say she is supposed to be representing us in the Senate. Do Nothing Debbie has been a real disappointment. We are not complaining about Mike Rogers needing an office here because he and/or his staff are here at least 3 times a week already and we never have a problem talking to Mike if we need to. He is very attentive. In fact, he does townhall meetings around the county frequently. He did one in February for Contractors needing answers on fuel costs. Great meeting and very informative. The next night, while you all were complaining that he was on vacation, he did another townhall meeting for folks in Fowlerville. If you want to talk to him, call him up. He won't let you rail without rationality, but if you have concerns or real questions, he'll talk to you. I don't think he will let you swear or be stupid, but he will answer tough questions. We have no problem with how Mike represents this district, that's why we will vote to re-elect him. He doesn't swear either.
I heard your guy say the "F" word, also the "MF" word. Great grace under pressure. All of you all should pray more and get closer to God. Kevins, do you go to Church? I think you might find more peace if you would try to hear God talk to you. I will continue to pray for your guidance on the real issues. Have a terrific day.

Anonymous said...

Assuming Marcinkowski can keep-up his fundrasing "pace," he'll raise another $250,000 or so. Giving him a total of about $366,000 for the campaign. If he want's to beat Rogers he'll need to increase fundraising by a factor of TEN. Yeah, good luck ...

Anonymous said...

Kevins - don't get mad and leave. You can wear these comments as a badge of courage and take one for the team.

Anonymous said...

I can be quite certain you are lying about the swearing business, but it's a blog and you like say what you wish. You know that bearing false witness is a mortal sin. Live with it.

Republican Michigander said...

I haven't heard Jim Marcinkowski swear. Maybe he ran his mouth in public. Maybe not. What I do know is that when most of his donations from individuals were from trial lawyers and most of his money is from union leadership and trial lawyers, then we should know what to expect. When most of those donations are from Royal Oak area lawyers, then we should be expecting another rich leftist gun grabbing Ann Arbor wannabe.

Anonymous said...

I do know that Mike Rogers wore a blue checked shirt and tan pants to the Pinckney St Patrick's Day Parade and was visibly angry when Patrick Flynn sang before he was to speak, so he left in a huff and refused to speak. Not too cool or in touch with his voters when he made his wardrobe selection or would not say a few words.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry about keeping pace with fundraising. The money will come! Fundraising will not be a problem!

Anonymous said...

"Fundraising will not be a problem!"? On what do you base this dillusion?

Marcinkowski collected about $1,200 a day in the last quarter. If he wants to raise about a million bucks he'll have to get about $4,400 a day from here to election day.

To have a chance to beat Rodgers he'll have to raise, maybe, three million, or about $13,200 a day or $92,400 a week.

Again, good luck.

Anonymous said...

Seems like alot of prattle from the Dems on this. Rogers is a leader on manufacturing (jobs), national security issues, health care issues like using the free market to provide better access to health care, energy policy and alternative fuel and the list goes on. What does the lawyer offer? Valerie Plame and Tom Delay. Now there's a reason to elect someone.

Jim's money comes from Unions, Gambling interests lawyers and lobbiests. Okay, big deal. Is it a suprise that these people oppose Rogers? Rogers gets his money from people who manufacture/produce/sell/buy/are employed and employ people. No shock there either. He is a free market kind of fella. Thats why I vote for him.

So I expect that more union bosses, gambling interests and Democrat lobbiests and lawyers will give money the next time as well. I expect that more of the people who are involed in producing things (jobs included) will give to Rogers as well. These are not too baffling. Whats baffling is how Marcinkowski, who has run on every ticket imaginable, believes he can do much of anything in the campaign. He is all over the map on issues, his only support comes from those who already dont like Rogers and he is running a national campaign. He could double his money and be fluttering in the wind.

He still has to beat a Dem in the primary as well. Maybe he will use that time to figure out who he is.

Patrick,

I still have no understanding why you are trying to run against Rogers. He has a solid record and has been apart of this community a long time. I give to charities, he is there. I vol at a private non profit, he is there. He helped organize a fund raising event for fallen soldiers families. His kids go to our local schools. He is a part of the larger community. I have heard he is very involed in the Lansing charitable groups as well (one of my old classmates was present when he raised a sizable check for a charity there). I'm starting to believe you like to see your name in the paper. Take some friendly advice from a long time political junky: Your embarrassing yourself.

Kevins,

Liberal elitists take their toys and go home. You dont strike me as one of those. More of a confused good guy who will someday understand that the Dems have ruined our cities (look what a Republic did for New York!), weakened our moral fiber, shot the goose that laid the golen egg (unions), fueled the I hate my own country rhetoric, regulated our businesses into a crisis....you get the idea. Dont leave. Your have the fun around here. I enjoy good fiction!

FrankB

Brian said...

I don't think that Spyboy will have any problem beating Eric(a) Crosley in the primary. Just a hunch.

http://www.jackson.cc.mi.us/ThePhoenix/issues/v16i1/crosley_congress.htm

patrick flynn said...

Crosley is out. It was in today's Argus. He said he got no support from the Dem party.

I'm short for time right now. For those still wondering about my challenge in District 8, please look to the "Big Tent" and the "Why Challenge" links on my site (click on my name to get to my site). Then email me if you need more info. I'd be more than happy to respond if you're sincere.

BTW, you anonymouses need to start using numbers or something.

bgkennedy2000 said...

Fair enough on the full disclosure - I do work for Marcinkowski - though that doesn't make anything that I wrote untrue.

I usually don't post anything when I see these blogs, but attacking Marcinkowski based on his finance report is the height of hypocrisy, so I had to do something.

I like the defense Kevins - its all fair and true - and we welcome your support, as well as that of any other Republicans, former Republicans, Independents, or Democrats. Besides, some of Marcinkowski's kitchen cabinet members are present or former Republican's angry at just how incompetent this Congress/President are.

Not to get to sidetracked by all the ad hominem attacks going on, but I though I might conclude with some final summary statistics on fundraising by Mike Rogers.

ROGERS 1ST QUARTER 2006 FUNDRAISING:

In-District v. Out of District: 22% v. 78% - $24,404 out of $111,958 of itemized contributions came from in-district donors while $87,554 came from out of district donors.

In-State v. Out of State: 36% v. 64% - $40,710 out of $111,958 of itemized contributions came from in-state donors while $71,248 came from out of state donors.

% from PACs: 71% - $79,900 out of $111,958 of itemized contributions came from PACs.

% from Individuals: 29% - $31,960.89 out of $111,958.89 of itemized contributions came from individual donors.

ROGERS CYCLE-TO-DATE FUNDRAISING:

In-District v. Out of District: 15% v. 85% - $89,734 out of $594,013 of itemized contributions came from in-district donors while $504,279 came from out of district donors.

In-State v. Out of State: 29% v. 71% - $174,141 out of $594,013 of itemized contributions came from in-state donors while $419,872 came from out of state donors.

% from PACs: 71% - $422,125 out of $594,013 of itemized contributions came from PACs.

% from Individuals: 29% - $171,888 out of $594,013 of itemized contributions came from individuals.

Anonymous said...

You go BG! The idea that Mike Rogers is rising his money from the good folks of the 8th Congressional is just not true!

Mike Rogers has been taking Livingston County for granted for a good long time.

The cake walk is over Mike.

Not Sea Eagle One said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Understood - but its on the Web at the FEC site.

Anonymous said...

BGKennedy - YAWN! Jeeze, I couldn't get through it.

You work for a candidate that used to be a republican, now he's a potty mouthed democrat who needs angry republicans, independents, democrats, and dead people to get elected and he is served by someone he pays to monitor and comment on blogs? Wow, Dan, we are better off than we thought.

I heard Mr. Marcinkowski use those words at the Joe Wilson lie-off event in Brighton. There were children present and he just stood up and let it rip. Very impressive and professional.

Anonymous said...

Aren't you violating FEC law?

U.S.C. SS 438(a)(4) generally allows for inspection and
copying of reports and statements filed with the Commission
but prohibits the sale or use of such copied information to
solicit contributions or for any other commercial purpose
with the exception of using the name and address of any
political committee to solicit contributions from such
committee. Commission regulations, specifically SS 104.15(a)
which elaborates on SS 438(a)(4) states, in part:

[A]ny information copied or otherwise obtained,
from any report or statement, or any copy, reproduction,
or publication thereof, filed with the
Commission... shall not be sold or used by any
person
for the purpose of soliciting contributions
or for any commercial purpose, except that the
name and address of any political committee may
be used to solicit contributions from such
committee.

Anonymous said...

He doesnt have "angry Republicans" That is purely campaign spin by a paid blogger. Seems like Marcinkowski is up to his old CIA tricks. Never trust a lawyer or a spy.

So its okay for Marcinkowski to hire a guy from washington to run his campaign and for him to raise out of state money, but Rogers should'nt raise pac money its bad? Please.

At the end its about where people stand. Your candidate has stood in every camp so far.

Flynn,
The Dems are just using you in this process as well.

FrankB

Republican Michigander said...

If you're asking me, no I'm not violating FEC law. There is no commercial purpose.

I'm not using the addresses to ask for money. That's what the FEC law is about.

Not Sea Eagle One said...

Violating FEC laws?

Try this:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Anonymous said...

Well, to bring the conversation back to Marcinkowski, (sometimes these Dems get way off base and we have to reign them back in) and his finances. Dan, I put a calculator to your numbers and I agree with you. The fact is, they've got to raise some significant money every day from now til the election. We'll just have to watch and see how they do. We'll also have to watch where they get their money from. You know how cagey those lawyers can be.

Count Me Red said...

Anonymous - you're right about the cagey stuff, but this guy also swears like a truck driver.

Anonymous said...

The "blog" disbursement refered to was reimbursement to a volunteer for the purchase of ad space on MichiganLiberal.com

Kevins said...

I know I’m wasting my time posting here, but the discussion has got kind of ridiculous. If you want to hear swearing take a listen to the Nixon Watergate tapes. To gig Marcinkowski for an alleged swear words is just stupid. What’s obscene here is what you’re letting george bush and his apologist mike rogers get away with. Tell me, what’s more obscene than war, especially a war than did not need to be fought?

Anonymous said...

Hey, leave our boy Mike alone - he's the best congressman money can buy. I heard that this congress has done the least amount of work since President Truman labelled the congress in session during his presidency the "Do Nothing Congress."

Anonymous said...

Kevins - Nixon isn't running for office. He's dead. I'm rather ticked at you constantly dissing our Country and our military for going to war. We know what you guys would have done, lobed at few missles at an aspirin factory and pat yourselves on the back, but I think the American people spoke to our reaction to some bad guys crashing planes into buildings and killing our people. We voted that we're okay with the war. There will be another election in November and we will see how the people vote. Until then, can't you be proud that someone is WILLING to step up to the plate and protect your fannie, your rights, and your liberties. Kevin S. I would like to give you a big hug and find out why you are such an angry guy. I would like to introduce you to a soldier I met who has just returned from Iraq. If you could hear it from the horses mouth, maybe you wouldn't have to be angry about a lie. Don't think you have to blindly follow anyone with a (D) by their name, follow your mind. You dishonor the dead and the wounded by saying the crap you keep repeating. The soldiers are clear in their mission and admit that while everything doesn't always go perfectly all of the time, their mission is successful and the Iraqi people are better off today, their words not mine, and are hoping to assist us in keeping stability in the middle east so the bad guys don't try to kill us.

Anonymous said...

No one has dishonored the dead... quit lying!

No one has said anything bad about our military, you probably are like the rest of the Republicans.. you never served!

Anonymous said...

Lots of you dems dishonor the dead and the wounded, what are you talking about? You protest the funerals for God sakes, you send Cindy Shehaan and Michael Moore to the pulpit every chance you get to spew lies and treasonous filth. Yep, you dishonor yourselves and our Country lots!!! Thank God there are brave soldiers who give you a pass and save your butts anyway. I did not serve. When I was that age they didn't draft girls; however, I would serve today if they would have me. I'm proud of our Country, our President, our Troops, and our friends. You even mock the 31 countries that went to war with us and call them irrelevant. You can NEVER be trusted with our security, but God Bless You, I honor your right to be as unpatriotic and stupid as you wanna be. Just don't ever come asking for my vote.

Kevins said...

Again, I know I’m wasting my time trying to change a close mind that ignores the facts, but I can’t let your assault on my integrity go by.

I’m very happy, anonymous, that you are “ticked,” and maybe you can use that misguided anger to ask your president why so many innocent people are being killed when it has nothing to do with the events on 9/11 or the security of this country.
I have never, ever “dised” our country or our military. We are the greatest country in the world, and as such we should also have the highest standards.

You are right when you say, “American people spoke to our reaction to some bad guys crashing planes into buildings and killing our people.” However, please explain to me what that has to do with Iraq. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq. Where’s is Bin Laden? He’s the man responsible.

Yes, I am angry. Angry that people like you let the president get away with a war that has nothing to do with the security of this country. More and more comes out almost everyday that he knew months before the war that he had his mind already made up and he was picking and choosing the Intel to support that objective, and all the while telling us war was a last resort. You should be angry about that.

I did step up to the plate. I served 20 years in the military, and I’m an Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran. Why is it that the biggest hawks are always the ones who will never face danger and have usually never worn a uniform?

I dishonor no one by demanding there be a dam good and valid reason to sacrifice the lives of the brave young men and women who are in uniform. As for stability in the Middle East because of the invasion of Iraq, are you serious? There were no Al Qaeda in Iraq before the invasion, but there are sure a lot now.

Anonymous said...

Kevin -

Thank you for your service to our Country.

The rest of your remarks don't bear response. I just think you are wrong.

Anonymous said...

kevins,

i have a line on a anger management class. I'll pay.

You have let your dislike for repubs/Bush cloud the facts.

Nightline (one of the late night news shows) recently played some Saddam tapes where spoke of Bio agents being used in washington DC. Al Quiada was present in Iraq and saddam had a liason relationship with them. Including talks with Bin Ladin aids in Africa of some sort of chemical weapons training. The terrorist who did the cruise line terrorist attack where they threw the guy in the wheelchair overboard was being housed, protected and financed in bahgdad by none other than the saddam regime. Saddam also paid suicide bombers families 25K for attacks in Israel. A suicide vest factory was found outside of bahgdad with over 600 operational vests that they had been distributing outside of Iraq. These are facts that are not disputed.

I appreciate your service to our country but please dont try and infer that those who didnt serve have no voice in this or are less americans than you. Your service on a ship in the first gulf war is admirable but hardly put you in "danger". As a former marine I can say that with great confidence.

My last check has far more vets elected in congress that are Republicans including our own Congressman Rogers. Niether of our Senators served.

I thought thebest lay out of the broad war on terror was done by Rep Rogers a couple of months back where he laid out the turning of the fight to areas where the terrorists train and live. A hard fightbut better than them having free reign to attack us here.

Kevins, dont kid yourself. When you rant and rave about defeatism and come home troops and let the extremists win you are doing what so many did to us in Vietnam. It is a fight they must win. Anything short of our full support for victory is turning your backs on them.

There are more Al qiada in Iraq now because Americans are fighting there. There are also more Al Qiada in Afghanastan now as well because thats where americans are fighting them. If we had done nothing we would be picking up after more attacks here because thats where americans are.

I dont normally post on these things but your efforts to belittle those who have served there country in ways you couldnt while you were in the Navy should never be discounted.

I was glad I had those people back home making America great when I served.

Kevins said...

I don’t need anger management, but you could use a course on history. You talk about facts, and then you rattle off this nonsense about all of the ties to Al Qaeda and Iraq. Believe me, if any of that conspiracy theory nonsense was true the bushies would be screaming it at the top of their lungs, faux news would stop talking about Natalie Holloway and the Duke lacrosse team to spin it 24 hours a day, the bushes would be producing many more propaganda pieces disguised as news reports and they would be buying more columnists. In addition to all that stuff, Frank Sinatra had President Kennedy assonated in retaliation for murdering Marylyn Monroe.

I never said people who didn’t serve in the military didn’t have a voice, and I only mentioned it because one of your buddies tried to say we who criticize the misguided war in Iraq are not willing to “step up to the plate.” Why is it that republicans are so quick to say they “appreciate the troops” and other BS then they degrade the service of the very troops they just praised when they disagree with them? I’m sure the sailors onboard the USS Stark were not in danger either.

When I was talking about the chicken hawks, I was referring to the bush's inner circle who started this war in Iraq.

I agree with you when you say we need to bring “the fight to areas where the terrorists train and live.” That was in Afghanistan, and bush had the support of every single American for that effort. But why he decided to invade Iraq I have no idea.

First of all, I’m not “ranting and raving” I’m having a debate, and that’s what this country is based on. That republican BS about you’re not supporting the troops if you don’t support our policies is pure bullshit and an insulting lie. I believe the lives of the troops are the most valuable asset we have and can’t be replaced. They should only be placed in harm’s way as a last resort, and it turns out the invasion of Iraq was the only option ever considered by bush. Why that doesn’t make you angry, I have no idea. It also turns out the people protesting the Vietnam War were right after all. What was gained by all of those years of death and destruction? What was lost by ending the war when we did? Nothing.

You are very right, far too right, when you say there are more Al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan now. We created more terrors than we have killed. We are the perfect recruiting tool because we invaded and are occupying a Muslim country for no real reason.

I am belittling no one.

Anonymous said...

Kevin S. -

Would it be possible for you to have your debate without all the swearing? Jeeze, you can't speak english or have a civilized debate without having a potty mouth?

You have your opinions, but you are wrong on the facts, and wrong on our mission, and wrong on our Commander in Chief. You hate republicans, you hate fox news, you hate war, you hate the truth. Could you try to find some answers instead of just crabbing about all the things you don't like. You are getting boring.

Kevins said...

If I’m so boring then don’t waste your time answering me. Or better yet, try and dispute my points and facts. I didn’t think so, either.

Anonymous said...

You mean facts like Sinatra killing Kennedy?

You dont have facts you have opinions based on your intense dislike for Bush. All the facts of Al Qaeda in Iraq are public record. You have been so conditioned by the Dems that these facts never get told. Why? it would mean re evaluating their opinion on what threat Iraq possed to the region and to the support of terrorism.

This notion of recruiting more terrorists is pure fiction. Being in Afghanastan brought about an intensified "world jihad". Nothing, including Iraq, was going to change that. Now they must fight on more than one front and recieve no aid and comfort from Iraq.

Kevins, you were a military person, do you think pulling out of Iraq will make all are problems go away? Ofcourse not.

Dont help the enemy by saying so.

Anonymous said...

Kevin these guys are nuts. Ignore them

Anonymous said...

Those who protest funerals are those of the Pratt and Day ilk. You know, homosexual haters.

Kevins said...

“All the facts of Al Qaeda in Iraq are public record?” Are you serious? What public record? That conspiracy theory is as valid and believable as the one that has Frank Sinatra having JFK assassinated in retaliation for the murder of Marylyn Monroe, meaning it’s ridiculous.

Anyone who believe the invasion and occupation of a small, Muslim country by the most powerful superpower in the world for made up reasons is not a recruiting tool for religious extremists has no common sense. On the contrary, fighting in Afghanistan saw a willing coalition fighting alongside us, and we had the support and goodwill of the entire world. Al Qaeda in Afghanistan were not receiving any support, material or anything else from Iraq prior to 9/11, after 9/11 and before the U.S. invasion. You obviously, believe otherwise, but sadly, there is zero evidence to support your wild conspiracy theory.

Do I as a military person think pulling out of Iraq will make all are problems go away? No, of course not, but it will solve some very large ones, and go a long way toward stopping the violence. Some military men with higher rank and combat experience, like numerous generals and U.S. Rep. John Murtha, support withdraw. As a military man, most people who have been in the military only support war as an absolute last resort, but in this case, it was the only thing considered, when he bush and his cronies were telling everyone it was a last resort. While doing that, they were picking through the intelligence to find only the reports that fit their decided upon conclusion, no matter how slim, unreliable or wrong the report was. That’s why no one in bush’s inner circle has any combat experience and few have been in the military.

When we withdrew from Vietnam, what happened to the security of the country? Nothing.

No matter how you and the republicans try to make people believe that somehow questioning bush’s polices “gives aid” to the enemy, it’s simply not true, and people like Gen. Tommy Franks believe it does not too. In fact, questioning the government is patriotic, and it’s what this country was founded upon.

Not Sea Eagle One said...

Hey! How about getting back to Marcinkowski?

Anonymous said...

I think its tragic that today each political party has its own set of facts. It makes no difference who's set of facts is true because partisans refuse to listen.

There was a recent study stating that partisans view issues with the emotional sections of the brain, not the rationale sections of the brain.

When I examine the debate above, I think I know who is using the emotional parts, and who is using the rational parts. What do the other readers think?