Thursday, August 03, 2006

The Argus adds comment sections

Is the Argus following in my footsteps here? They've added comment sections on their online stories. Interesting move and a gutsy one depending on how they decide to moderate them.

47 comments:

Communications guru said...

You’re kidding right? I’m sure the newspaper is “following in your footsteps.’ Give me a break, and don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back because it’s not true. That is nothing new. Newspapers have what’s called a “letters to the editor” section for hundreds of years where you can comment on any story or any topic.

Tell me any industry where it not only encourages you to criticize them but also gives you the forum to do so.

Also, the Press & Argus is part of the Gannett chain, and they have been doing that for years. The Detroit News, a former Gannett product has been doing it for years and still does.

Count Me Red said...

Yeaaaaaa! Now we can get our letters to the editor printed immediately. We don't have to get through the gestapo group to get our comments published. It is a well-known fact that they have been monitoring this blog for quite a while now. Guess they thought they were missing out (and there are). Happy Days are here again. Can't wait to tell our folks this news.

Communications guru said...

Whist Gestapo group? This, and every newspaper, prints every letter it gets if it can verify the name. I see already on the letters section dan is spreading his lies. The problem here is he doesn’t have to own up to it. It’s the same old lies about the anti-war protest, and lots of other ugly lies.

Count Me Red said...

Just keep repeating "I want to come home, I want to come home, I want to come home", and maybe those aliens will release you. KevinS, you are a real nutjob.

Communications guru said...

First of all, kevins was kicked off this blog by dan. Second, for once try some real, intelligent debate instead of name-calling, communist. That would be a real, welcome change from you. I really don’t think you’re capable of that, but the challenge is there.

Republican Michigander said...

For the zillionth time, kevins was not kicked off. If Kevins was kicked off, communications guru would also be kicked off since it is the same poster.

Once again, this is another lie by a bald faced liar. This doesn't say much for the company Mike McGonegal keeps.

Communications guru said...

Again, for the zillionith time, show me the last time kevins posted? The only liar here is you.

anonymous said...

The problem with comment sections is that for every carefully thought out post from a concerned citizen you end up getting about 9 nutcase posts from people like KevinS who just want to bash and call names without engaging in any intelligent discussion.

Communications guru said...

I have no idea who you are – I’m sure you want it that way – but all of my posts are carefully thought out. The type of name calling you just engaged in is what I get in return in lieu of a real debate. Is calling Kevin a "nutjob" – you must be new because he was kicked off this blog –your idea of “intelligent discussion” and not ‘bashing” and “name calling?” Great thought out, intelligent discussion, anonymous.

Republican Michigander said...

The last time kevins posted was 10:43PM under the name Communications Guru.

And you lied again about saying you were kicked off. Does McGonegal know he has a liar running his official campaign blog?

Communications guru said...

I guess you’re going to try the conservative tactic, if you tell the lie enough times people will start to believe it.
The last time Kevins posted and was allowed to post was 6/20/2006 5:16 PM
Does Jay Drick know he has a liar running his campaign? Don’t bother; I already know the answer to that one.

Curley Sue said...

Kevins, chew on these facts and this debate:

Theresa Brennan's resume' isn't fit for this race, in this community. She is clearly an activist. Her 2003 'Jane Fonda Style' Anti-war Protest disqualifies her from a run at any non-partisan race, in my humble opinion. I have never seen any attorney or judge organize a protest rally. It's just not something judges do. But, if and when they do something like this, the voters have every right to know about it and to hold her accountable accordingly. Our family has decided NOT to patronize those businesses who clearly show support for Brennan by advertising her race in front of their stores. Now that our community gets to FINALLY have a say in whether we want Judge Brennan on the bench in our community, I think we will give her a resounding BOOT. She is clearly a Democrat, not that that really matters, but to say she is non-partisan is dishonest. Her signs all say "Non-partisan Ballot" as if that makes her $14,000 in donations to Democrats and Very questionable organizations null and void. It is high time that we held her accountable for who she is, where she chooses to spend her money, the organizations she belongs to, and most importantly, her actions. I have heard many people try to defend her anti-war actions as being before the Iraq war started. Well that is just silly. Her comments and actions against the war while our troops were in theatre were very demoralizing. The troops said it was, and Kevins armchair analysis just doesn't matter. If we elect this "Jane Fonda" to the bench, we are basically letting her actions speak for our community. We should NOT let that happen. I think Theresa Brennan is nice, probably good at her job, but that doesn't make her any less a Democrat, or any more qualified to be a judge. I say NO to Theresa Brennan. Our Family and friends will be voting for Jay Drick on Tuesday August 8th.

Jay Drick is the Father of a soldier who served in Iraq and I want them to know that we appreciate his service to our Country. We cannot begin to know what it is like to be parents of someone in harms way. Brennan cannot know how difficult that is, since she is not a parent. I also saw on her website that she is pictured with 4 children standing between her and her husband. WHAT KIND OF MISCONCEPTION IS THAT. Theresa, you will have to be accountable for who you are and what you did. If you don't want children, be proud to say so. It isn't necessary to try to decieve the good folks in that way. Let us know who you are and decide for ourselves if we want that or not. Don't try to decieve us into thinking you are something you are not. You are not non-partisan, you are not a parent, you are not pro-life, and you are not supportive of our war on terror. There will be folks that will vote for you on those issues. Just not the majority of our community.

Communications guru said...

Your post is so full of half-truths and misinformation its hard to tell where to start. I guess the top is the best place to debunk this BS, although I have already done it numerous times before.

Of course she’s an "activitist."Any one who cares about their community, is successful and is committed to bettering things is an activist; from the person who volunteers to be a Big Brother or Big Sister to the person who is a member of the Optimist Club.

To say Judge Brennan's resume “isn't fit for this race, in this community” is absolutely ridiculous, and by that convoluted logic every kid currently in one of the five school districts in Livingston County “isn't fit for this race, in this community.”
Judger Brennan grew up in this community, graduated from Howell High School and has practiced law in this community and worked to better it with a long list of volunteer activity.

Well your humble opinion is 100 percent wrong, and what the hell is a “Jane Fonda Style Anti-war Protest,” and how does it “disqualify her from a run at any non-partisan race?”
I was at that protest, and it was a peace protest not an anti-war protest because troops were not yet committed to Iraq, at least that’s what bush was saying publicly. But the protestors had no way of knowing he was lying. Are you honestly telling me that only Democrats opposed the Iraq folly? That’s a ridiculous claim. Bush’s approval rating and his support for his personal war are falling everyday, but what this has to do with a district court race only you know. Again, she was not a judge then, and private citizens can do what they please and feel is right. It turns out the protestors that day were 100 percent correct. If bush had listened to what they were saying that day thousands of people would be alive and would have all of their limbs and faculties today.

It’s not me, you or Judge Brennan that says this race is nonpartisan, it’s the law. I suggest you pick up a copy of the U.S. Constitution and read it.

The troops have not said anti-war protests are “demoralizing,” and even the commander on the ground in Iraq says the very same thing. For you to say otherwise is silly.
Being a Democrat and supporting Democrats is not a disqualifying factor for judge, any more than being a republican qualifies you to be a good judge. Except in your mind and the minds of people who think the Constitution is a waste of time, of course.
That’s fine, you vote against Judge Brennan on Tuesday, and that’s exactly what you will be doing. You will not be voting for the best judge if you do. There’s no way to change a closed mind, but you are not going to get away with the constant lies and misinformation you are putting out about her or her record
.
There are people out there who have open minds and consider the candidate's qualifications when voting for a judge.

I appreciate his son’s service to the country, but that has nothing to do with him. I happen to know the career soldier who recruited his son; he is a friend and my former neighbor. Its’ sad after what they tried to do to him that now he’s using his son as a campaign prop.

Judge Brennan is from a large, close-knit family, and she has many nephews and nieces. Are you honestly saying she can’t care about her family, and if she does she is somehow “deceiving” people? That’s’ just sad that you would make that kind of accusation, and that just shows how hateful the right is for no reason. I didn’t know that hate was a family value, but apparently it is.
BTW, Kevins is no longer on this blog.

Communications guru said...

I tend to agree with your first point, to a degree, sadly, but he problem is none of the things you just posted in your second sentence – “Jane Fonda Style Anti-war Protest,”"activitist"“deceiving”Democrat, judges” - are true.
BTW, I used to love your web site back in the days of the sign guy. It was probably the original blog in Livingston County.

Curley Sue said...

Kevins - Brennan might have grown up in our community, but she was NOT a practicing attorney when she got the appointment to be Judge. She was an activist throwing lots of money at the Democrat party, holding fund raisers, and anti-war protests. What a great profile for a Governor looking for an activist judge to appoint.

You can argue with the title of the protest that Theresa Brennan organized on the courthouse lawn, but I didn't invent the term. SHE called it an "anti-war protest" in her letter of application for permission to use the courthouse lawn and also with her email notice to the police department notifying them of the event. Argue with HER about the title. Yep, Kevins, private citizens can do whatever they feel moved to do, it is only when they try to run for public office that your actions may interest the public. If she had stood up and said I am a proud anti-war democrat (like you do) that would be more honest. But no, she says she is non-partisan. Hogwash.

Maybe you are too young to remember Jane Fonda in the 1960's. That is why I call Theresa Brennan's event a Jane Fonda Style Anti-war protest. Jane Fonda or Hanoi Jane as she was later called, gave aid and comfort to the enemy, even to the point of visiting them while they were holding and torturing our captured soldiers. War is not for the weak of heart, I admit, but then there must be some anger and retaliation at those terrorists who killed 3,000 of our innocent people in the world trade center. And, had your beloved Clinton not been fiddling with cigars in the oval office and playing with children and other peoples wives, perhaps he could have mustered a little spine to retaliate for the bombing of the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen, and the attacks on the World Trade Center the first time. Denial that terrorists want to kill us does not make that problem go away. Those that understand this are resolved to fight. War is not pretty, but how can you sit on your warm fuzzy couch and complain that some brave soldier somewhere in the world endures great danger and discomfort for your right to protest and say stupid things? Theresa Brennan is a war protester! and I think our community deserves the right to know who she is and then to decide if they then want to elect her to serve our community on the bench. I think they don't, and you think they do. That makes for great debate and a "we'll see" on both our parts. Your mind is no more open than mine so why do you whine so much about that? You think what you think, and I think what I think, and we are both right to ourselves. It is this debate that opens eyes to those that might not know the total truth so they can make good choices for themselves. I think Earl LaFave would be horrified and embarrassed if he knew he supported a person with views like Theresa Brennan's. The difference between us, Kevins, is that I want them to vote with their eyes open, and you want them to vote with their eyes closed. I'll accept that our community does not support our troops or their mission when they say so at the ballot box with a clear vote. We'll just see.

Not-a-RINO said...

Meisler is supposed to be a reporter and not a writer for the OP ED pages. With this in mind, doesn't that ruin his objectivity to report for the P & A without bias? One thing Meisler is overlooking is that being an activist by arranging a war protest a few days before our Armed Forces went into Iraq, supporting extremely liberal people like Debbie Stabenow, and supporting fringe groups like MI List, Brennan has shown her leftist disposition. By knowing she's supported these fringe groups and activities, could conservative Livingston County residents expect fair and sensible rulings from someone who is this far out-of-touch with our community? At least Meisler admitted Brennan is a liberal. He just doesn't know how liberal she really is.

Communications guru said...

She sure as hell was a practicing attorney when she was appointed to the bench, or the Bar Association would never have recommended her. She has every right to support who she wants, and they are all respected organizations. You also said anti-war protests as a plural, simply not true.

I don’t know how it can be called an anti-war protest when there is no war, but fine, we can call it that. However, that doesn’t change the fact it was a legitimate protest to try and get the president to be true to his word and try and seek a diplomatic solution to the situation and give the weapons inspectors time to do their job.

Hogwash? What don’t you understand about the law and the Constitution? It’s the law that says it’s a nonpartisan race. Not me or Judge Brennan, but the Constitution that says it’s nonpartisan.

Yes I am old enough to remember Jane Fonda, and that’s exactly why I have no idea why you are making such an idiotic reference, it makes no sense whatsoever.

The people killed on Sept. 11, 2001 has absolutely nothing to do with the fiasco in Iraq, and President Clinton has as much blame to bear for that attack as the guy in the oval office when the attack occurred and was too busy cutting brush in Crawford to pay attention to a report that an attack on a building with a hijacked plane was imminent.

I know a little about war, and I was in the first Gulf War instead of being on my “warm fuzzy couch” where I wanted to be. I’m going to “complain” whenever I want, and whenever I see the lives of people I served with being risked for no real reason, whether you lie it or not. I not only helped secure that right with 20-years in the military, it’s my right as a citizen, and there is a lot to complain about.

You couldn’t be more wrong when you say my mind is as closed as yours. I have voted for republicans and conservatives in the past when they are the best candidates, and unlike you, the letter after their name doesn’t automatically get my vote. Tell you what, on Tuesday, just vote the straight party ticket for the republicans, after all, it’s you that says this is not a nonpartisan race, so that should be no problem for you or Mr. Drick
.
Earl Lafave knows Judge Brennan, so I’m sure he knew how professional, competent and fair she was. But I won’t speak for Earl, so why don’t you ask him yourself.

Again, Kevins does not exist on this site. Second, you could not be more wrong. I want people to vote with their eyes open and not just to vote R or D. Look at the person, the qualifications and the record, and there is no doubt Judge Brennan is the best judge. I also have no problem with anyone looking at her past political affiliations, but not the misrepresentations and lies you and your ilk are putting forth.

Being against bush’s Iraq folly has absolutely nothing to do with not supporting the troops, and as a career military man, people support the troops much more by ensuring they are only put in harm’s way when the security of our country is at risk. That is not the case with Iraq.
How the hell did a district court race end up as a referendum on the Iraq misadventure anyway?

Not-a-RINO said...

Com Guru, you have indicated that the judicial race is non-partisan, according to the Constitution. However, to those of us who live in the real world, it may be catagorized that way, but the person bring elected is not. Do you honestly think this same person goes to the polls and marks all the blank ovals at election time?

In your Neville Chamberlain-esque mind-set, you asked how this is a referendum to the Iraq War. Well, actually it is not. This is all about judgement and temperment. Have you ever heard of the adage, "You are judged by the company you keep?" Tale a long, hard look at all the kooks who belong to the Michigan Peace Network, the umbrella group that is tied to the anti-war rally Brennan got the permit for. It looks like a phone book for the nuthouse.

At a time when most patriotic Americans show their support for their troops, Brennan and her pals chose to protest the war effort--less than a week before they were to go into harm's way. If you were in the Armed Forces at that time, wouldn't you want to know everyone at home is with you?

After 12 years of UN resolutions to rid Saddam Hussein of WMD and/or the records showing they were destroyed, the Bush administration had enough. I am sure you wouldn't believe that Al Qieda was chumming with Saddam; that there were actually WMDs; that Iraqi people were being murdered, tortured, and raped; and Saddam was just meerly taking a vacation in Kuwait so there's no legimate reason for our forces to liberate and secure the peace. Holding hands and singing 'Kumbya' wasn't going to help anything--only action would. Doing nothing was what Hitler knew the democracies would do while he took over Europe. Some folks don't believe history repeats itself many times. Brennan, by her actions, told everyone she prefers 'Kumbya'.

Brennan said she supports the troops but is against the war. Really? Can you love all the Detroit Lions and think the team sucks? They are one and the same.

It is obvious to me that you are an angry person who really likes to believe Bush is Satan incarnate and that peace-loving Saddam was attacked for no good reason. You are entitled to believe as you wish.

"I may not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."-Voltaire

Regrdless, thank you for your service to our Country.

Count Me Red said...

Kevins (you have to be him because when you were Kevin S you told me about your service in the military). It really doesn't matter, just be honest, that's all. I just wanted to thank you for your service to this country!

Ms. Brennan had kept her license to practice law active, but her law office was closed and she was going to work on political campaignes for "Debbie Stabenow and whoever the democrat candidate for governor would be." Those were her words printed in an article in your beloved paper. So sorry, she was not practicing but had an active license.

You are the one to bring up the Iraq war. We never went beyond the anti-war protest. I would much rather talk about Ms. Brennan's work with the Michigan Peace Network, the group she was the spokesperson for in the application process for the anti-war protest. Michigan Peace Network (when you google it) brings up some very shady organizations. So, either Brennan is in lockstep with the likes of Code Pink, MoveOn.org, and Students for a Democratic Society, OR she respresents groups she doesn't investigate the facts on before she decides to join. Both or not very Judicial. The contributions to MI-list and Planned Parenthood are in the same category. Just not very judicial. In fact, very activist donations. It's her record, not mine. But, I think she should be accountable for it before she asks the voters to elect her. Sorry you disagree. Thank you for fighting for my right to say what I think.

RKG said...

Hey, give it a rest! We know how you feel and who is getting your vote. Nothing anyone says on this blog is going to convince anyone to change their vote. My question is, how do you think the vote will go? From a purely political viewpoint, do you think the candidates have gotten their message out? Is the fact that Brennan will get the designation as an incumbant insurmountable? Will the presence of a second woman on the ballot have an impact. What will the turn out be? It's getting down to the wire, so how about some predictions.

Communications guru said...

Here we go again. No matter how many times I dispute these false claims, I have to do it again for somebody different.
First of all, I’m not speaking for Judge Brennan, nor have I ever. What I am doing is setting the record straight on that protest I was at on March 15, 2003.

“Do you honestly think this same person goes to the polls and marks all the blank ovals at election time?” Of course not, and that’s a ridiculous question. I know this is hard for you to fathom, but some people vote other than straight party. But really, the question is what role does politics play in deciding cases by the law? Mr. Drick says Brennan’s political party plays a role, yet when challenged he cannot cite one example. I live in the real world too, and if there are no nonpartisan elections, then why have them? If this was a swing county like Monroe, for instance, this would not be an issue, and Mr. Drick would have to make up some different mud to sling.

My “Neville Chamberlain-esque mind-set?” Who am I appeasing? Please don’t say the terrorists because the Iraq folly had nothing to do with terrorism, 9/11 or a danger to the U.S. I agree this is all about “judgment and temperament,” and that’s why I’m voting for Judge Brennan. I know her personally, I was at the Howell debate and I listened to the praise she has received from both defense lawyers and prosecutors for her work on the bench. I know many of the people associated with the Michigan Peace Network, and they are neither kooks nor nut jobs.

Are you honestly going to try and tell me that you can only be patriotic if you support this senseless war? If that’s true then there are not a lot of patriotic Americans anymore. How can you “protest the war effort” when there was no war? If I was in the Armed Forces at the time I would want to know that if we are going to be placed in harm’s way it was only at the last resort, the reasons for the war were true and my leaders were being honest. None of that applied here.

This illegal invasion was not sold as a way to unseat Saddam Hussein, it was sold to us because he was “an immediate threat to the U.S.,” and bush didn’t want the “smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.” Talk about lies. Hussein was the same man that shook hands with Donald Rumsfield, the same man we sold weapons to and supported, the same man in charge of a country where one of his pilots in 1985 flying an F-16 – I believe that was the correct aircraft – that put a missile into the USS Starke killing some 30-40 sailors. If he was so evil why wasn’t he took out in 1991? Do you really believe he is the only dictator responsible for killing and torturing people? Why not take them out? There were and are no weapons of mass destruction, and Hussein and al-Qaeda have never had any connection, despite bush constantly tryign to link Hussein to 9/11. There is no way you can compare Hitler to this situation, and no one was singing “Kumby.” The fact is doing nothing in respect to Iraq was the best policy, and the peace marchers were right on March 15, 2003.

Again I do not speak for Judge Brennan, but of course you can support the troops and be against this senseless folly in Iraq, even more so. Are you serious with this question, “Can you love all the Detroit Lions and think the team sucks?” You must not be a long-suffering Lions fan like I am, of course you can.

What makes you think I’m angry? I am frustrated that after all this proof there are still people like you out there that still believe Hussein had WMDs and he was connected to 9/11. I don’t think bush is Satan. I think he’s the worst president we have ever had, he’s incompetent and the most dangerous man in the world. I also never said, in fact no one has ever said, “Peace-loving Saddam was attacked for no good reason.” Iraq was invaded and occupied for no good reason, however.

Thanks for the insincere comment about my service. I don’t know how old you are, but the army just raised the maximum age to enlist to 42. If you support the Iraq folly so much why don’t you enlist, unless you are past 42 or already served, of course.

BTW Voltaire never said that.

Communications guru said...

Well Mr. Communist, I’ll agree to stop calling you Mr. Communist if you stop calling me Kevins. Granted, I am the same person, but I truly feel like I was kicked off. I have explained why I feel that way numerous times.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but with our past history, unless you show me an independent source I’m just not going to take your word for it. Also, it’s not my beloved paper; I just have a lot of respect for newspapers and print journalists.

I have to disagree with you that when you say it was I who brought up the Iraq folly. Drick called the March 2003 peace rally an “anti-troop cut and run protest.” That is a lie.

I know many people involved with the Michigan Peace Network, and they are some of the finest people I know. To me, they are the real pro-life group. Just because you don’t agree with them is your problem, and it doesn’t make them radical, bad or “shady.” Right to Life is one of the most violent groups I know, and I don’t have a problem with them existing, I disagree with everything represent, but I have no problem with them being around.
Without Planned Parenthood many poor and middle class women would not have access to reproductive health care, such as pap smears and other services, and what’s wrong with Emily’s list? Nothing. They are dedicated to electing pro-choice women, how is that much different than Right to Life, other than I don’t believe they have bombed any clinics or murdered any doctors.

Communications guru said...

Realize I’m not going to change anyone’s vote here, but I cannot let these lies go on unchecked. If you do that, the gop strategy of “ if you tell a lie often enough people start to believe it” works. That’s kind of how the ridiculous myth the right started more than 30 years ago about the so-called liberal media got accepted.
I believe Judge Brennan will be retained simply because she has been doing the job. She has been praised by both defense lawyers and prosecutors, and her court has no backlog. As for the other candidates, I think Christina Heikkinen did an excellent job in the debate. And I hope she makes the cut. As for Mr. Drick, I can only hope that negative campaigns and smears tactics do not prevail, but I’m afraid partisan politics will trump that.

Count Me Red said...

Thank you for your honesty communications guru. We knew the truth of your identity, it was the fib you were trying to make us believe that was just not going down right. You have a right to change your id if it suits you, but to try to deceive people is just wrong. Thank you as well for the calm, no potty mouth debate. I understand what you are saying, I just can't agree. I feel very passionately about not putting an activist judge on the bench. I know she is doing a good job, she needs to be elected and I doubt that doing a bad job would get her elected. It's what happens after she is elected that we just can't risk. Guru, you wanted some proof. I have some proof I'd like to show you. How could we make that happen?? There is no way that I will believe that Michigan Peace Network is a good organization. But, I don't care if you are a member, unless you try to run for office. The public just has a right to know the truth and then do with it whatever they will. Hiding, deceiving, and lying just cheats the system and gets us elected officials that do not represent our best interests once they are elected. We are suffering from that now. We have people who ran as Republicans who do not vote or support like Republicans. We will hold them accountable as well, but right now, we would like not to elect them in the first place. So, Tuesday will be interesting and give us an idea of how much more work we need to do to expose the truth and inform the voters. We have never been afraid that the Primary would be it, but it is important to tell our voters the truth. Taking a picture of your family and making it appear as if you have children when you don't is the fringe of what's wrong here. Theresa Brennan has no children, wants no children, and has not even taken her husbands name. No problem with that unless you run for office and those values don't match the community you live in. Trying to make yourself something you aren't just to get elected is what we are against. Just be honest and get your voters where you can.

Communications guru said...

Well Red, I’ve always been honest. I never tried to hide my identity anymore than you are. Count Me Red isn’t your real name is it? I never tried to deceive people, and I would have preferred to keep my original name. It was not my idea to change it, and I would not have changed it unless dan forced me to. I don’t think it was right, and I still maintain I was kicked off the board.

I don’t recall ever being a “potty mouth” in a debate here. Well, if you feel so strongly about letting an “activist judge” on the bench then I suggest you never vote in a judicial election again. Of course they are active; like I said before, from Big Sisters. Big Brothers to the Optimist Club. How can you realistically expect someone who is successful enough to rise to the top of their elite profession not to be active in a lot of things? Drick is a member of the Livco gop executive committee, so I guess by your definition he is an extremist activist? But apparently he’s the kind of activist you support, so it’s OK. Red, my friend, that’s called a double standard.

If you want to show me proof you can just go to my blog and e-mail me. I would love to see this alleged proof you speak of, although I’m not sure what it’s proof of.

Well, I’m sorry, the Michigan Peace Network is a good organization. I’m not a member, because basically, as I understand it, it’s like a parent corporation with lots of subsidiaries. I’m also not a member of the organization because I don’t always support non-violence. But as a career military man, I feel like I know the kind of people who are going to be sent into harm’s way because I was once one of them, I just feel their lives are much too valuable to be risked unless there is a very good reason. Bush’s Iraq fiasco does not meet that criteria.

I also strongly believe the public has the right to know the truth and as much info as possible, but the stuff dan, Drick and now others are putting out is not the truth.

I don’t believe there are people who ran as republicans that are not real republicans, at least in Livingston County. I know many people who have been loyal republicans for years who feel the party has left them after it was hijacked by the right-wing fanatics that currently run the party. Republicans like Cindy Pine, Jack LaBelle and Dave Domas are republicans who I have a lot of respect for because they can listen to both sides and have an open mind. However, I world venture to guess that at one time or another those good people were called rinos.

I must be missing the point about this picture business I have heard about for the second time today from two different people. Those children are part of Judge Brennan’s family. Anyone who knows any of the large, close-knit Brennan family knows that, and it is not an attempt to deceive anyone. The fact that she chose to honor her family with her last name is totally irrelevant to this, and it’s rather stupid. I have no idea if she chose to have children or not, nor do I care, nor does it even matter. You talk abut family values, yet one of the front runners for the gop presidential nomination in 2008 is newt gingrich, a man has been divorced three times and divorced his first wife after she just go out of cancer surgery. And you’re criticizing Judge Brennan?

She is not trying to make herself anything she is not.

wilberboy said...

Guru AKA Kindergarten Kevin, you are again not telling the whole truth as the article you pointed me to clearly stated that to the best intelligence at the pre war planning it was common knowledge that Saddam did indeed have WMD's. That is a solid fact.

http://www.factcheck.org/article358.html

“However, if I did “cherry pick” it like you charge, so what?” A quote from the infallible Guru.
You are so full of it you speak from both sides of your mouth. You speak of facts but your own link to an article clearly shows you are deceiving.
A stereotype Liberal, hold everyone else to the truth while you tell lies.
The liberal mindset is if you tell a lie often enough it will come true.

Communications guru said...

You have to be kidding right?
This is the second paragraph from the article.
“The CIA and most other US intelligence agencies believed before the war that Saddam had stocks of biological and chemical weapons, was actively working on nuclear weapons and "probably" would have a nuclear weapon before the end of this decade. That faulty intelligence was shared with Congress – along with multiple mentions of some doubts within the intelligence community – in a formal National Intelligence Estimate just prior to the Senate and House votes to authorize the use of force against Iraq.
In fact, before the war Bush and others often downplayed or omitted any mention of doubts about Saddam's nuclear program.

You are a joke. Pre-school wilber. You use words like “common knowledge” and “solid fact,” but the two paragraphs above use words like “believed,” “probably,” “downplayed” and “omitted.” How do you get a solid fact out of that?”

We have already had this discussion a previous thread, and you took my alleged quote out of context. I said if, if, I cherry picked, so what. You excused bush for actually doing it, and if I did some 2,000 U.S. Servicemen did not die, thousands are not limbless or paralyzed, thousands of Iraqi civilians are not dead, thousands more are not maimed, are foreign policy is not a mess, the middle east is not ready to explode and the world does not hate us.
BTW, I see you cannot read very well, or at least comprehend, but kevins does not exist on this blog and hasn’t for a couple of months.

Not-a-RINO said...

I just wanted to add a point to the Iraq situation here. When the Israel-Hezbollah conflict flared up recently, what was the first thing Israel did? They blew up the Damascas to Beruit Hwy. Why? Because they didn't want Hezbollah to get their hands on Saddam's WMD he sent to Syria before the war.

As for your conspiracy theory, Guru, many DEMs also believed their were WMD in Iraq and rightfully didn't trust Saddam one iota. When they saw the overwhelming public support for Bush, they couldn't have any part of that! They have been on a smear campaign ever since. If President Bush is a liar, then are they all liars, too? Browse to the following site just to prove that I'm not just picking on you:

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/01302004.shtml

British Intelligence still holds fast to the idea that Saddam was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger. It just HAD to be for "peaceful purposes", right?

You also point out we have lost over 2000 servicemen. True enough. While I agree each and every one of them is precious, let's put things in context here: Did you know that in the Battle of Iwo Jima, America lost about 8000 soldiers per mile of territory? Did you know that more Americans were killed in LA and Detroit during the same period of time as the Iraq War and there's no war going on over here? Freedom isn't free and this meerly illustrates that adage.

I guess you could make the arguement that Iraq never attacked the USA so we have no business over there. If that represents your line of thinking, I have to ask you did Germany attack us before we went to war with them in WW I and II? Yugoslavia? North Korea? There are many instances of us going to war without being attacked. Do we have to wait until one of our cities is reduced to rubble before we act? What is the proper number of our citizens we must lose before it's okay with you to send in our forces? If you were calling the shots, Saddam & Co would be mobilizing for a regional war of conquest, committing murder, torture, and rape while filling mass graves with the poor souls who dare to oppose his brutality. They say hindsight is always 20-20. Maybe there could have been somethings done differently, but in the final analysis, history will show Bush did the right thing.

Communications guru said...

I just can’t believe after all this stuff ahs been debunked time after time people still cling to this misinformation.

I don’t know what the Israelis did first, nor do I care in this situation, nor does it matter in this situation. There are no WMDs in Syria or Iraq, and certainly none that are an “immediate threat to the U.S. Where’s the proof?

What Democrat conspiracy theory are you talking about? I never put one forward. Bush simply wanted to topple Saddam, and 9/11 gave him the cover he needed. He zeroed in on this theory that he had nuclear weapons, and any thing that did not fit that conclusion was thrown out or ignored.

You honestly think using a link to a hatemongering wing nut as proof of your conspiracy theory is proof?

I don’t know what British Intelligence holds fast to, but even bush admits that Saddam was not trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger. Why do you think the bushies went after Ambassador Joe Wilson and his wife for exposing that lie in his SOU speech?

Trying to compare the Iraq fiasco and World War II is ludicrous. Germany declared war on the U.S. and allied with a country that attacked us, Japan, that also declared war on us. A little different situation, don’t you think? North Korea was in the middle of the Cold War, and we were committed to supporting our non-communist ally. Remember the Domino Theory? Also in Korea and Yugoslavia we were part of a UN or multi-national force. Not in Iraq, other than the British.

As a mater of policy, I don’t take a conservatives word for anything without proof because of past experience. Please don’t be offended by that, but if you read some of the crap that has been forth by some of these people as fact you will understand. I don’t how many people were lost in the LA and Detroit riots, but it was just as senseless as the loss of life in Iraq.

That ridiculous claim by the bushies, “do you want to be the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud” had been debunked as ridiculous, but you’re clinging to the basic, incorrect theory.

“What is the proper number of our citizens we must lose before it's okay with you to send in our forces?” Ans. At least one.

You actually say “Maybe there could have been something done differently.” Maybe? Please. As I said earlier in this same thread, Saddam is the same man that shook hands with Donald Rumsfield, the same man we sold weapons to and supported, the same man in charge of a country where one of his pilots in 1985 flying an F-16 – I believe that was the correct aircraft – that put a missile into the USS Starke killing some 30-40 sailors. If he was so evil why wasn’t he took out in 1991?

You can’t honestly believe “In the final analysis, history will show Bush did the right thing.” Why?

Next.

Count Me Red said...

Next? That would be me. Guru, what in the heck are you talking about? There you go being a cut and run, anti-American, liberal again. You said:
"Saddam is the same man that shook hands with Donald Rumsfield, the same man we sold weapons to and supported, the same man in charge of a country where one of his pilots in 1985 flying an F-16 ... that put a missile into the USS Starke killing some 30-40 sailors. If he was so evil why wasn’t he took out in 1991?"

Now you're back to "we deserved what we got"? You make me absolutely puke. We didn't take him out in 1991 because we had a different President and a different set of balls protecting the American people. I want you to stop calling the President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief to some of your brothers, "bushie". You are a disrespectful, potty mouthed, idiotic, absolute ass. (pardon my French - I didn't think you'd mind since you're buddies with them). I have seen pictures of Sadam's WMD's found by soldiers that have returned from the war. I dare you to call them liars, you hippocrit. You just hate our President and prefer instead YOUR leader, the yellow-bellied, pervert, rapist. Guru, we don't really care what you think. I'm done with you. You are now just a big fart on the blog that we have to motivate around. This last kindergarden rant was just too over the top for me. When you reduce yourself to what you really think you sound like the coward you are. My soldier friends say they volunteered to go, they believe in their mission, they honor their dead and wounded by continuing to fight, and they say you make them sick. I agree with them. And even so, they still think you are included in the America they are fighting to keep safe. Kevins, you're a stupid pig most of the time. The rest of the time, you are sleeping.

Another stupid quote from you: "some 2,000 U.S. Servicemen did not die, thousands are not limbless or paralyzed, thousands of Iraqi civilians are not dead, thousands more are not maimed, are foreign policy is not a mess, the middle east is not ready to explode and the world does not hate us.

Those servicemen and their heroic families are proud of the sacrifice and the wounded soldiers are proud of their sacrifice so that America remains safe, Sadam cannot kill his own people by the hundreds of thousands, or cut off their tongue's, or hands, or rape the women and children, and the world has hated us for many many years. The Bush administration was the first administration to get a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine and even got Israel to pull out of parts of their country to give Palestine a home. But TERRORISTS everywhere in the world are killing innocents. I think Israel should make a crater in the earth where Hezbollah and Hamas live, I think the US should put a crater in the earth where N. Korea is, and then I think we should sit back and ask the world who is next? We should be done with their ignorant killing and century long wars. Democracy is peace. We did not go to war with Iraq to find WMD's, you ignorant lying idiot, we went to war to be sure the weapons had been destroyed as promised but not verified. Hey, Sadam could have saved the world a lot of grief by saying he moved them to Syria, but no, some idiots go down with their lies. So we had to pull the bastard out of the fox hole. Too bad they didn't just shoot him instead of letting us watch him whine and cry at his farce of a trial, but, that's just me. Kevins, enough of you and your mindless, cowardly, lying ideas.

Communications guru said...

Wow. Where did that come from, and what did I do to deserve that rant? Well, I guess that agreement we made didn’t last very long, and so much for civilized debate, communist.

You can’t be next because I have already debunked your lame rants a couple of times.
How am I being a “a cut and run, anti-American, liberal again?” Are you saying the stuff I said that Saddam is the same man that shook hands with Donald Rumsfield I and we sold weapons to is not true? Then prove it.

When did I ever say or even imply, “we deserved what we got?” You must have a reading comprehension problem.

We had another bushie in the White House in 1991, remember? As for the rest of your pathetic name calling, I’m not going to bother to respond to it. If that’s the best you can muster for a debate, then you’re just sad.

Read my lips; there are no WMDs in Iraq. I’m a coward? I did 20 years in the military. How many have you done? The Army just raised the age of enlistment age to 42, why don’t you enlist if you haven’t reached that age yet since you are not a coward and I am?

You took the quote out of context, or is it just part of your reading problem?

The rest of your disgusting rant doesn’t have an ounce of fact in it, so I won’t bother to respond. However, the bushies Iraq disaster was sold to the public and Congress that Iraq was an immediate threat to the U.S. I’m so glad you’re “done with me, communist, that’s just one less person I have to correct. Does this mean you no longer thank me for my service to this country?

In the meantime, relax; take a sedative or an anger management class.

wilberboy said...

Guru again you go off on a tangent. I stated that at the time it was believed to be the most accurate assessment. 3 years later and now you are a arm chair quarterback.. I suppose next you are going to tell us 3 years ago you bought Google stock as you knew then what you know now. Why do you keep coming back to this site? The site is for grown ups.

Not-a-RINO said...

Commie Guru-- I am sure you have someone somewhere thinks that you have a functioning brain. All I can say is "prove it." Most of the time you don't even make sense. Maybe the tinfoil in your hat shifted?

Communications guru said...

How can I “go off on a tangent,” Pre-school Wilber, when I’m just debunking the misinformation you posted?

I guess this alleged, “arm chair quarterbacking” you say I’m doing would not have happened if there had not been a rush to war? Also, three years later the only strategy we hear from the bushies about its Iraq fiasco is “stay the course.”
This site is from grownups, and I’m not? Are you for real? Check out the temper tantrum little count me red just threw then tell me I’m not “grown up.”

The reason I keep coming back to this site is simple, and I have told people the reason time after time. It is to call dan and others out on their lies, misinformation and spin, and a few names and attacks aren’t going to deter me from that mission.

Communications guru said...

Rhino, you’re joking right? I’m still waiting for you to back up the whopper that “Israel blew up the Damascus to Beirut Hwy. because they didn't want Hezbollah to get their hands on Saddam's WMD he sent to Syria before the war.” Or this one, Saddam really was trying to buy yellowcake Uranium.

Then you have the nerve to tell me I don’t “have a functioning brain or I don’t make sense?” Why is it every time you call out a conservative on one of their ridiculous claims instead of them trying to defend it, they stoop to name calling? Just sad.

Not-a-RINO said...

Why should I defend anything with you? A nut case like you wouldn't believe anything a conservative said even if they had Jesus Christ Himself vouch for him. EVERYONE on this blog has either twisted what you say or took you out of context. Yeah, right. Ya know, I have met a number of people like you in my life and I chalk them off as candidates to be centerfolds for 'Proctology Magazine'. Life for you must be miserable.

Communications guru said...

Because you can’t defend your position. No problem. I have also met plenty of people like you. The first time you challenge their ridiculous positions they fold like a tent and blame you for it.
Hey, if you ever come up with some facts you can actually back up, let me know. Good luck.

wilberboy said...

GURU So you are saying that before the war started that the best intellengence did not lead to the fact that Saddam had WMD's Yes or No just answer the question. And all can see who is spinning the truth.

wilberboy said...

And as far as Yellow Cake. What were 500 tons of yellow cake uranium still doing at the nuclear research center of Al-Tuwaitha in Iraq when American tanks rolled into Bagdhad?
The story begins at the end of the first Gulf War when inspectors found a 500 ton cache of refined yellow cake uranium at Iraq’s primary nuclear research facility in Al-Tuwaitha outside of Bagdhad. The cache was part of a huge inventory of nuclear materials discovered by UN inspectors that included low-level radioactive material of the type used for industrial and medical purposes as well as a quantity of highly enriched uranium suitable for bomb production.
Look at the timeline http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Booklets/Iraq/event.html
If Saddam did not have WMD's as you claim why is he on trial for Gassing his own people? (in mid-March 1988 in the Kurdish town of Halabja) Or did the Bushies as you put it fabricate this also.

Communications guru said...

“What were 500 tons of yellow cake uranium still doing at the nuclear research center of Al-Tuwaitha in Iraq when American tanks rolled into Baghdad?”
It was under seal by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). It’s funny, I typed yellow cake uranium and Al-Tuwaitha in my browser, and it returned all the right-wing wack jobs sources, like Free Republic, David Hoorowitz, Sean hateity, rush Limbaugh and newsmax. Wow, there’s’ some unbiased, reliable sources for you.
Finally, I got a professional news organization, Time Magazine. From it I learned the facility was looted because the bushies failed to guard against that, and the secretary of defense said looting was not a problem and he didn’t care about it. The article from May 23, 3003 says, “They recovered about half of the 256 stolen yellow cake barrels. Coalition officials try to look on the bright side. They maintain that any suggestion the missing radiation sources could be used for a radiological or dirty bomb is a "stretch."
I read the IAEA time line, and what’s your point. It seemed the inspectors were doing the job, and there were signs, as well as doubts, that Iraq was complying. Why the rush to war when there were so many doubts at a time when we knew who actually planned and executed the attack on 9/11 and we should have been going after those people?
No body ever said he didn’t gas his own people, the same people we encouraged to revolt against him and then we failed to support. The story is true, but what’s the point. He was an evil, brutal dictator, but he was also a brutal, evil dictator in 1979 when he came into power. There are plenty of his ilk out there in the world. Why is he so special? What does gassing the Kurds have to do with WMDs. You don’t classify poisonous gas as a WMD do you? How is it delivered to the U.S. By a B-52?

Count Me Red said...

KEVIN S. - I still thank you for your service to our country. No matter what mental institution I think you belong in, that thanks will never be withdrawn. I just wonder if the stress of military service somehow got to you? I'm looking for a reason that you seem to have a problem with America. You served our Country and now you seem to think the Terrorists are more worth protecting than Americans. I don't get it, but, keep spewing. You are making our case that you have lost your sense of country and patriotism. That's okay, the troops will still protect your right to be un-patriotic. 20 years is not a career, did you have a breakdown or something? I'm not being mean, I'm looking for what the hell happened to you.

bluzie said...

Red, you don't seem very concerned about our troops, you just want to spromote one of the most disasterous Middle East policy, or better yet a no Middle East policy in our history.

Red, you do more work to help the enemy than you do to help our troops and our country!

We have not been a good friend to Israel by promoting war and instability. Maybe you are one of those people who are just waiting for the Rapture or something.

Communications guru said...

Well, communist, I’m glad to see you took a tranquilizer. Now, if you can just find a drug that doesn’t cloud your thinking.

What the heck makes you think I have a problem with America? It’s the greatest country in the world, but I don’t accept its faults blindly like you. As the best, we should have some high standards, and we should be wearing the white hats.

Because I don’t agree with you somehow I support the terrorists, I’m unpatriotic, I belong in mental institution or I lost my sense of country? That is absolutely untrue, stupid and arrogant. More than half of the American people do not support the Iraq fiasco, yet somehow you have cornered the market on patriotism. Give me a break. Again, try some real debate before you stoop to name-calling. That would be a novel approach for you.

Frankly, I don’t know why we’re even having this exchange. Wasn’t it you who just less than 24 hours ago told me “we don't really care what you think. I'm done with you.” Or this well articulated, well-written gem, “enough of you and your mindless, cowardly, lying ideas.” So why are bothering with me if I’m “just a big fart on the blog that we have to motivate around.”

The Iraq fiasco has nothing to do with patriotism, security or protecting America. I have no freaking idea what patriotism means to you. It must mean we follow our leaders blindly and never, ever question a decision they make. If that were the case then the Founding Fathers must have been the ultimate traitors, and we would bow to the Queen. They certainly questioned their government.

You obviously know nothing about the military. Twenty years is what it takes to enter the fleet reserve and start earning a monthly retainer. Again, if you support the Iraq fiasco and the troops so much, why have you not enlisted?

Put your money where your mouth is, I did. I’m not being mean I’m just looking for a reason why you don’t really support the war effort.

Count Me Red said...

Bluzie, who cares what you think, not me. I support our troops, and our country, and our President. You call all the names you want, doesn't bother me a bit.

Kevins you can't have a rant without name calling so what's the big deal if someone else does it? You have lost your sense of country if you think we have to always wear the white hats. Terrorists are killing innocent people everywhere in the world and I think they should be stopped. I'm proud of our Country and I'm proud of this President. You don't have to be, I don't care. I didn't like yours either. Like it or not, the President is running the show which he gets to do until the end of his term. The oozing hate is sad, but it's your blood pressure, I don't care. Think what you want and spew all you want, fact of the matter is, until 2008, we get to be led by President Bush, and I for one like it like that. Too bad you don't. We've had people like you and Bluzie around for many many years and the earth hasn't fallen in. I won't convince you and you won't convince me, and I don't think Bluzie counts so enough. I'm bored with you both and I have some important elections to win. Check back in a week or so. Happy spewing.

Communications guru said...

Again, communist, when are you going to enlist and really support the troops instead of just giving it lip service? Are you honestly comparing what I wrote to that hate-filled rant you unleashed on me on 8/05/2006 1:59 PM? Instead of ignoring the questions I put to you or points I make by resorting to name calling and going off on your misguided tangents about how I hate my country, the president and the troops, try addressing them for a change. That’s’ called debate and an exchange of ideas.

wilberboy said...

Guru, You did not answer the Question. Yes or No

Communications guru said...

Sorry Wilbur, I don’t know what question you’re asking. Your post of two days ago was about yellow cake uranium, and I refuted that. I don’t see a yes or no question in there, so you will have to ask it again.